Finding the front-most window

java-programmer, Finding the front-most window On Jul 22, 2:39 am, "Andrew Thompson" <u32984@uwe> wrote:
> Twisted wrote:
> >> No. Users of GG are responsible for their choice ...
>
> >What part of "The vast majority of GG users have no alternative news
> >posting option" don't you understand, ...
>
> <http://www.javakb.com/>
>
> There are web based alternatives, but ultimately, the
> problems experienced by users of web interfaces to
> usenet (WITUN) are not, and should not become, the
> problems of group contributors in general.

And how, pray tell, do you suggest that be arranged? If the WITUN
screws up, it screws up and the consequences will affect every
newsgroup. The posters there have no control over that. Did you think
they did?

As for people attempting a posting, and it failing to appear, then
after several hours trying again, that is something that will happen
if a normal NNTP server misbehaves in the same manner as well.
Postings either disappearing or being queued locally for ages before
eventually being posted successfully is by no means a unique problem
of WITUNs. I've seen it at NNTP servers a time or two in the past,
when you could actually find one to use that let you post without
paying extra.

As for this JavaKB, from the name I'm guessing it carries only this
group and maybe other comp.lang.java.* groups, rather than a full
feed, which makes it unuseful to me, since I read plenty of non-Java-
related groups as well.

java-programmer >> Finding the front-most window On Jul 22, 2:39 am, "Andrew Thompson" <u32984@uwe> wrote:
> Twisted wrote:
> >> No. Users of GG are responsible for their choice ...
>
> >What part of "The vast majority of GG users have no alternative news
> >posting option" don't you understand, ...
>
> <http://www.javakb.com/>
>
> There are web based alternatives, but ultimately, the
> problems experienced by users of web interfaces to
> usenet (WITUN) are not, and should not become, the
> problems of group contributors in general.

And how, pray tell, do you suggest that be arranged? If the WITUN
screws up, it screws up and the consequences will affect every
newsgroup. The posters there have no control over that. Did you think
they did?

As for people attempting a posting, and it failing to appear, then
after several hours trying again, that is something that will happen
if a normal NNTP server misbehaves in the same manner as well.
Postings either disappearing or being queued locally for ages before
eventually being posted successfully is by no means a unique problem
of WITUNs. I've seen it at NNTP servers a time or two in the past,
when you could actually find one to use that let you post without
paying extra.

As for this JavaKB, from the name I'm guessing it carries only this
group and maybe other comp.lang.java.* groups, rather than a full
feed, which makes it unuseful to me, since I read plenty of non-Java-
related groups as well.

java-programmer >> Finding the front-most window Twisted wrote:
>> >> No. Users of GG are responsible for their choice ...
>>
>[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>> usenet (WITUN) are not, and should not become, the
>> problems of group contributors in general.
>
>And how, pray tell, do you suggest that be arranged? If the WITUN
>screws up, it screws up and the consequences will affect every
>newsgroup.

Those posts were appearing in the JavaKB
WITUN 'as they happened' in GG. ...

>..The posters there have no control over that. Did you think
>they did?

..Did you even think to check, or are you more
concerned with having a rant (as usual)?
..
>As for this JavaKB, from the name I'm guessing it carries only this
>group and maybe other comp.lang.java.* groups, rather than a full
>feed, which makes it unuseful to me, since I read plenty of non-Java-
>related groups as well.

Not my concern.

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200707/1

java-programmer >> Finding the front-most window Twisted wrote:
> On Jul 21, 5:29 pm, Martin Gregorie <email***@***.com>
> wrote:
>> email***@***.com wrote:
>>> On Jul 21, 12:12 pm, Martin Gregorie <email***@***.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I know of several ISPs that don't run news servers and others that do
>>>> but don't support the binary newsgroups.
>>> Some areas have none of the latter, at least when not counting dial-
>>> up.
>> Kindly name them. Otherwise you're just waving a straw man.
>
> Oh come off it. You can start with just about the whole continent of
> North America. It shouldn't be too hard to find it on a map, since
> it's bloody enormous.
>
OK, so you don't actually know of any. Thanks for the confirmation.

>>> Anybody with a credit card, you mean. That's a far cry from "anybody".
>> If you've got an ISP subscription you're got a credit card.
>
> Maybe ISPs in your neck of the woods only take credit cards but over
> here they accept cheques and paying via your bank in other ways, with
> only a normal checking account needed and no credit.
>
That was your implication, not mine.

>> First you complain that US broadband is too slow to support an NNTP
>> client
>
> That's something you just made up out of whole cloth. I never claimed
> anything of the sort.
Quote:

"It's relevant if you use your net connection for very much else
besides NNTP and you're not crazy or rich enough to wastefully pay for
two ISPs every month instead of one, just to get the service you
should be able to get from just the broadband one!"

> I said US broadband doesn't provide NNTP service whatsoever.
>
....

> No. I said no broadband ISPs provide bundled news service any more.
>
Make up your mind, chum. Pick one story or the other and stick to it.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

java-programmer >> Finding the front-most window On Jul 22, 6:17 am, "Andrew Thompson" <u32984@uwe> wrote:
> >..The posters there have no control over that. Did you think
> >they did?
>
> ..Did you even think to check, or are you more
> concerned with having a rant (as usual)?

Oh come off it. Don't you think that if the GG membership could have
made GG work properly again during that last week they would have? If
they had control over it, don't you think they wouldn't have had it
stop working properly in the first place? No, they were at the mercy
of a bunch of Google's technicians who were, from all the evidence I
could gather, sitting around with their thumbs up their asses for
roughly 96 hours and then fixing it for 3 or 4 afterward. And one of
whom probably screwed their systems up in the first place by
forgetting rule numero uno in IT: "If it ain't broke, then for
Christ's sweet sake DON'T FIX IT!"

java-programmer >> Finding the front-most window On Jul 22, 6:50 am, Martin Gregorie <email***@***.com>
failed to shut the hell up:
> > Oh come off it. You can start with just about the whole continent of
> > North America. It shouldn't be too hard to find it on a map, since
> > it's bloody enormous.
>
> OK, so you don't actually know of any. Thanks for the confirmation.

What? North America doesn't qualify as a big enough "area" to count in
your books? How fascinating.

> >> If you've got an ISP subscription you're got a credit card.
>
> > Maybe ISPs in your neck of the woods only take credit cards but over
> > here they accept cheques and paying via your bank in other ways, with
> > only a normal checking account needed and no credit.
>
> That was your implication, not mine.

Wrong:

On Jul 22, 6:50 am, Martin Gregorie <email***@***.com>
failed to shut the hell up:
> Twisted wrote:
> > On Jul 21, 5:29 pm, Martin Gregorie <email***@***.com>
> > wrote:
> >> If you've got an ISP subscription you're got a credit card.

Putting the attributions together with that line makes it clear that
it was YOU who asserted that having Internet service automatically
means having a credit card.

That claim is untrue, at least of North American ISPs.

> >> First you complain that US broadband is too slow to support an NNTP
> >> client
>
> > That's something you just made up out of whole cloth. I never claimed
> > anything of the sort.
>
> Quote:
>
> "It's relevant if you use your net connection for very much else
> besides NNTP

You'd said dial-up ought to be enough for anybody (not in those exact
words).
I responded to the effect that the lower speed of dial-up is a problem
(relevant) if you use your net connection for very much else besides
NNTP.

In other words, NNTP may work fine over dial-up, and a few other
things (including email if you don't get much spam), but nearly
everything more sophisticated is painful-to-impractical on dial-up.

Which ought to be bloody obviously true.

That you cannot apparently intelligently parse the meaning in the
plain English I'm writing suggests that you should quit this debate
now and go take a few refresher courses in grade-school English.

> > I said US broadband doesn't provide NNTP service whatsoever.
>
> >
> ....
>
> > No. I said no broadband ISPs provide bundled news service any more.
>
> >
> Make up your mind, chum. Pick one story or the other and stick to it.

You failed to quote the context of the latter, which implied that I
was talking about the region I'm in, rather than the whole damn
planet.

Anyway, you simply cannot argue against provable facts. Lew seems to
have this same problem -- I point out that something they said is
factually false and even disprove it mathematically and still you
fucking argue!

java-programmer >> Finding the front-most window On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:43:54 +0000, nebulous99 wrote:

> On Jul 22, 6:50 am, Martin Gregorie <email***@***.com> failed
> to shut the hell up:
>> > Oh come off it. You can start with just about the whole continent of
>> > North America. It shouldn't be too hard to find it on a map, since
>> > it's bloody enormous.
>>
>> OK, so you don't actually know of any. Thanks for the confirmation.
>
> What? North America doesn't qualify as a big enough "area" to count in
> your books? How fascinating.

Not the whole continent. My ISP provides all of the alt.binary.*
newsgroups, and probably similarly in every major metropolitan city. That
covers the Eastern region from Boston to Norfolk, Dallas/Fort-Worth, the
west coast, probably Honolulu, Chicago, St. Louis, etc. In terms of
population, that's probably about 80% of the population with access to at
least one broadband provider with ISPs /with a.b's/ ! Maybe the broad
parts of unpopulated/sparsely-populated that make up a majority of North
America don't have it, but such statistics are measured by population and
not land for various reasons.

java-programmer >> Finding the front-most window On Jul 22, 2:59 pm, Joshua Cranmer <email***@***.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:43:54 +0000, nebulous99 wrote:
> > On Jul 22, 6:50 am, Martin Gregorie <email***@***.com> failed
> > to shut the hell up:
> >> > Oh come off it. You can start with just about the whole continent of
> >> > North America. It shouldn't be too hard to find it on a map, since
> >> > it's bloody enormous.
>
> >> OK, so you don't actually know of any. Thanks for the confirmation.
>
> > What? North America doesn't qualify as a big enough "area" to count in
> > your books? How fascinating.
>
> Not the whole continent. My ISP provides all of the alt.binary.*
> newsgroups, and probably similarly in every major metropolitan city.

There is an eastern North America city of three-quarters of a million
people neither of whose broadband providers provide any no-added-
charge NNTP to subscribers. It will remain nameless for reasons of
privacy and irrelevancy; it suffices that such a place exists to meet
your criteria. That city, with that population, is nontrivial enough
an "area" to count.

java-programmer >> Finding the front-most window On Jul 19, 5:41 am, Twisted <email***@***.com> wrote:
> You again, being an arsehole again. Can't you see he's using google
> groups? That means for the past two days he's been posting the
> message, getting told it "succeeded", and then not seeing it -- or any
> replies to it -- even after several hours. You would make multiple
> attempts given the same (lack of) information.

Shit! Someone must have hacked his Google Groups account too!

java-programmer >> Finding the front-most window On Jul 24, 2:03 am, Joe Attardi <email***@***.com> wrote:
> On Jul 19, 5:41 am, Twisted <email***@***.com> wrote:
>
> > You again, being an arsehole again. Can't you see he's using google
> > groups? That means for the past two days he's been posting the
> > message, getting told it "succeeded", and then not seeing it -- or any
> > replies to it -- even after several hours. You would make multiple
> > attempts given the same (lack of) information.
>
> Shit! Someone must have hacked his Google Groups account too!

Actually, every GG user was affected with the same symptoms during
that period, and there was nothing selective about the users or
messages affected. That was just plain incompetence on someone's part
over at Google HQ.