Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc  
Author Message
asjbiotek





PostPosted: 2007-6-30 11:25:00 Top

java-programmer, Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc On Jun 29, 10:31 pm, Kurt <email***@***.com> wrote:
> In article <email***@***.com>,
>
> email***@***.com wrote:
> > This guy nailed it, although I think the iphone will just become like
> > any other smartphone as opposed to an outright flop, albeit a lot more
> > CRIPPLED because you actually can't do anything with it.
>
> LOL I'd love to repost this 6 months from now.
> We'll see how good your spinning skills are.
>


Perhaps you'd like to post valid arguments instead of vacuous taunts
to the writer of the article.

Since the iPhone has absolutely no application capability, no IM, no
email integration capabilities, and not even the ability to edit
documents or spreadsheets or powerpoint presentations, it
automatically won't affect the business smartphone market (thus, the
fact that Rim Blackberry shares went up by $34 today).

Since it does not play any of the thousands of consumer Java games and
apps (IM, messaging, picture sharing, social networking, etc) already
in the market today, it is also a crippled CONSUMER phones.

In other words, it's a pretty GUI with nothing underneath.









 
gimme_this_gimme_that@yahoo.com





PostPosted: 2007-6-30 11:57:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc You're on the wrong track.

Most iPhone users have laptops. These aren't reasons not to buy an
iPhone.

Just wait for Apple's ultra slim MacBooks to come out.


> Since the iPhone has absolutely no application capability, no IM, no
> email integration capabilities, and not even the ability to edit
> documents or spreadsheets or powerpoint presentations, it
> automatically won't affect the business smartphone market (thus, the
> fact that Rim Blackberry shares went up by $34 today).
>
> Since it does not play any of the thousands of consumer Java games and
> apps (IM, messaging, picture sharing, social networking, etc) already
> in the market today, it is also a crippled CONSUMER phones.
>
> In other words, it's a pretty GUI with nothing underneath.


 
asjbiotek





PostPosted: 2007-6-30 12:07:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc On Jun 29, 11:56 pm, "John" <email***@***.com> wrote:
> <email***@***.com> wrote in message
> The iPhone will be a tremendous success based on what I saw tonight at the
> Apple and ATT stores. Joe Sixpack wants it. Its appeal is not limited
> to techies.

J6P can't afford it....most people want a less than $100 phone.

It's actually pretty freaking funny when delusional macnuts here say
apple will "dominate" the cellphone industry...HELLLO????? There are
like 1 BILLION phones sold every year (forecast for iphone next year:
10 million), most growth being in Asia (esp China), where people
couldn't care less what an iPhone is, and where the most advanced
phones put the iPhone to shame because they are cool AND actually can
play games and applications..

Even in USA, there was actually a survey done that showed high
recognition of the iPhone, but when pressed about whether they would
consider BUYING it, a pretty low number said yes (I'll have to dig up
this stat).

Sure, it'll sell a lot, but the iPhone is never going to be as
successful as the iPod, as clearly elucidated by that writer.

And btw, there were like 10 people in the AT&T store near me. Not
exactly overwhelming numbers there...even a raving mac guy interviewed
in detroit said he was surprised there weren't more people in line.


 
 
John





PostPosted: 2007-6-30 12:10:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc
<email***@***.com> wrote in message
news:email***@***.com...
> On Jun 29, 11:56 pm, "John" <email***@***.com> wrote:
>> <email***@***.com> wrote in message
>> The iPhone will be a tremendous success based on what I saw tonight at
>> the
>> Apple and ATT stores. Joe Sixpack wants it. Its appeal is not
>> limited
>> to techies.
>
> J6P can't afford it....most people want a less than $100 phone.
>
> It's actually pretty freaking funny when delusional macnuts here say
> apple will "dominate" the cellphone industry...HELLLO????? There are
> like 1 BILLION phones sold every year (forecast for iphone next year:
> 10 million), most growth being in Asia (esp China), where people
> couldn't care less what an iPhone is, and where the most advanced
> phones put the iPhone to shame because they are cool AND actually can
> play games and applications..
>
> Even in USA, there was actually a survey done that showed high
> recognition of the iPhone, but when pressed about whether they would
> consider BUYING it, a pretty low number said yes (I'll have to dig up
> this stat).
>
> Sure, it'll sell a lot, but the iPhone is never going to be as
> successful as the iPod, as clearly elucidated by that writer.
>
> And btw, there were like 10 people in the AT&T store near me. Not
> exactly overwhelming numbers there...even a raving mac guy interviewed
> in detroit said he was surprised there weren't more people in line.
>
>


Joe Sixpack may not be able to afford it but hundreds of them were pulling
out their credit cards because THEY WANTED IT SO BAD. It will become
another "iPod" for Apple. No doubt!!!

 
 
John





PostPosted: 2007-6-30 12:11:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc
<email***@***.com> wrote in message
news:email***@***.com...
> On Jun 29, 11:56 pm, "John" <email***@***.com> wrote:
>> <email***@***.com> wrote in message
>> The iPhone will be a tremendous success based on what I saw tonight at
>> the
>> Apple and ATT stores. Joe Sixpack wants it. Its appeal is not
>> limited
>> to techies.
>
> J6P can't afford it....most people want a less than $100 phone.
>
> It's actually pretty freaking funny when delusional macnuts here say
> apple will "dominate" the cellphone industry...HELLLO????? There are
> like 1 BILLION phones sold every year (forecast for iphone next year:
> 10 million), most growth being in Asia (esp China), where people
> couldn't care less what an iPhone is, and where the most advanced
> phones put the iPhone to shame because they are cool AND actually can
> play games and applications..
>
> Even in USA, there was actually a survey done that showed high
> recognition of the iPhone, but when pressed about whether they would
> consider BUYING it, a pretty low number said yes (I'll have to dig up
> this stat).
>
> Sure, it'll sell a lot, but the iPhone is never going to be as
> successful as the iPod, as clearly elucidated by that writer.
>
> And btw, there were like 10 people in the AT&T store near me. Not
> exactly overwhelming numbers there...even a raving mac guy interviewed
> in detroit said he was surprised there weren't more people in line.
>
>


ATT Store got only a few phones(37 at my local store!) and told people that
only a few would be avialable. Each Apple Store GOT THOUSANDS!!!

 
 
Todd Allcock





PostPosted: 2007-6-30 12:31:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc At 30 Jun 2007 03:25:17 +0000 email***@***.com wrote:

> Since the iPhone has absolutely no application capability, no IM, no
> email integration capabilities, and not even the ability to edit
> documents or spreadsheets or powerpoint presentations, it
> automatically won't affect the business smartphone market (thus, the
> fact that Rim Blackberry shares went up by $34 today).


Don't confuse hardware with software. Just because Apple didn't include
such things doesn't mean they can't add them if the unit doesn't live up
to expectations.

Hell, they could add an office suite to the same hardware and sell it as
the "iPhone Pro" for $100-200 more!


> Since it does not play any of the thousands of consumer Java games and
> apps (IM, messaging, picture sharing, social networking, etc) already
> in the market today, it is also a crippled CONSUMER phones.

Again, it's one JVM away from running your precious java apps. I use a
Windows Mobile phone from T-Mo, who left Java support off intentionally,
for whatever reason. I installed Intent's Midlet Manager eventually,
then realized there's no java app I really require (WM has native software
that works better for most tasks) so I removed the JVM to save storage
memory.

Java is great for "feature phones" with proprietary OSes, but WM, Palm or
Symbian phones get along fine without Java apps, as will the iPhone.
But, again, there's nothing inherently "java-incompatible" about the
iPhone except that Apple didn't deem such support necessary. If it's a
barrier to sales, they can squeeze out a JVM download if/when necessary.


> In other words, it's a pretty GUI with nothing underneath.

I'd say all of the "essentials" are there right out of the box. I'd wait
and see how this "widget" thing goes before shi--ing all over it's
expandability.

I have nothing against the iPhone except that it really brings nothing
new to cellphones except slick marketing and a pretty GUI.


 
 
asjbiotek





PostPosted: 2007-6-30 12:56:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc On Jun 30, 12:31 am, Todd Allcock <email***@***.com>
wrote:
> Java is great for "feature phones" with proprietary OSes, but WM, Palm or
> Symbian phones get along fine without Java apps, as will the iPhone.
> But, again, there's nothing inherently "java-incompatible" about the
> iPhone except that Apple didn't deem such support necessary. If it's a
> barrier to sales, they can squeeze out a JVM download if/when necessary.

All Symbian and Linux phones have Java built-in (go to Symbian blogs
and most of the apps they talk about are Java apps), as does many new
Windows Mobile phones. The Blackberry is 100% Java. Most feature
phones also have it. The only exception in USA is Verizon, which has
Brew as the alternative.

As to apps, if you don't have Java, you lose out on the vast majority
of games and apps out there, which is why if you go to Windows Mobile
forums (especially when they first came out with no JVM) you kept
getting people trying to install it, a very funny situation since the
Microsoft people in there kept disparaging it anyways. I also find it
amusing to see windows mobile people keep installing Opera Mini or
Google Maps Mobile while others try to get them to switch. How's
Microsoft's Compact Dotnet Framework btw? LOL....

As to the iPhone, it's a useless pretty thing that is like a high-
priced hooker who just sits there doing nothing. Nice to look at, but
helpless in a pitch.



 
 
Todd Allcock





PostPosted: 2007-6-30 14:00:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc At 30 Jun 2007 04:56:03 +0000 email***@***.com wrote:

> > Java is great for "feature phones" with proprietary OSes, but WM,
> > Palm or
> > Symbian phones get along fine without Java apps, as will the iPhone.
> > But, again, there's nothing inherently "java-incompatible" about the
> > iPhone except that Apple didn't deem such support necessary. If it's
> > a barrier to sales, they can squeeze out a JVM download if/when
> >necessary.
>
> All Symbian and Linux phones have Java built-in (go to Symbian blogs
> and most of the apps they talk about are Java apps), as does many new
> Windows Mobile phones.

True- I never said they didn't- I just tend to prefer "native apps."
Nothing against Java, but running a VM on a device is like running a DOS
program on a Windows PC- you can do it, if there's no alternative, but
running a "real" Windows program is usually preferable.


> As to apps, if you don't have Java, you lose out on the vast majority
> of games and apps out there, which is why if you go to Windows Mobile
> forums (especially when they first came out with no JVM) you kept
> getting people trying to install it, a very funny situation since the
> Microsoft people in there kept disparaging it anyways.


I've used it, it works fine, but it's, at least for me, fairly unnecessary.






> I also find it
> amusing to see windows mobile people keep installing Opera Mini or
> Google Maps Mobile while others try to get them to switch.

I'm amused as well, since Google's GMM for Windows Mobile works better
than the Java version, and Opera makes a better native browser for
Windows (Opera Mobile) that doesn't have the inherent security problem of
running all of my data through their proxy.

I find equally amusing that the two examples you came up with, which can
easily be considered two of the "killer apps" for java, exist in superior
native versions. Why should I run either program in a VM? It'd be
like running a Nintendo game on my PC in a emulator rather than simply
using the PC port of it!

> How's
> Microsoft's Compact Dotnet Framework btw? LOL....


Beats me, I could care less- I'm a user, not a developer. No program I
use has required me to install it, so my installed programs are either
using whatever version is already built into my MDA's ROM, or they don't
need it.


> As to the iPhone, it's a useless pretty thing that is like a high-
> priced hooker who just sits there doing nothing. Nice to look at, but
> helpless in a pitch.

I assume you meant "pinch."

Most of us, at least those of us old enough to have graduated beyond Game
Boys, get along fine without Java games.

I agree the iPhone is overpriced for what it offers, but it has a media
player, a camera, a browser, and e-mail. A decent feature set even
without the ability to play "Lemonade Tycoon."

There are plenty of reasons not to buy an iPhone, IMO, but lack of java
support isn't one of them. Java (for mobile phones) serves the same
purpose as Apple's browser Widgets- a way to develop for a device whose
manufacturer won't let you see what's behind the curtain.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 
 
karlkrandall





PostPosted: 2007-6-30 16:05:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 03:25:17 -0000, email***@***.com wrote:

>On Jun 29, 10:31 pm, Kurt <email***@***.com> wrote:
>> In article <email***@***.com>,
>>
>> email***@***.com wrote:
>> > This guy nailed it, although I think the iphone will just become like
>> > any other smartphone as opposed to an outright flop, albeit a lot more
>> > CRIPPLED because you actually can't do anything with it.
>>
>> LOL I'd love to repost this 6 months from now.
>> We'll see how good your spinning skills are.
>>
>
>
>Perhaps you'd like to post valid arguments instead of vacuous taunts
>to the writer of the article.
>

You're the one who posts insults when someone posts links proving what
a resounding success iPhone is.

http://www.engadget.com
 
 
asjbiotek





PostPosted: 2007-6-30 20:58:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc On Jun 30, 1:59 am, Todd Allcock <email***@***.com> wrote:
> > All Symbian and Linux phones have Java built-in (go to Symbian blogs
> > and most of the apps they talk about are Java apps), as does many new
> > Windows Mobile phones.
>
> True- I never said they didn't- I just tend to prefer "native apps."
> Nothing against Java, but running a VM on a device is like running a DOS
> program on a Windows PC- you can do it, if there's no alternative, but
> running a "real" Windows program is usually preferable.

lol....Notice I never said that Java is somehow superior to native
apps for end-users in PCs.

To a consumer end user, there usually isn't (and should not be) any
difference.between the two (Since we're talking PCs, the fact is that
the some of most popular desktop apps are java apps - Limewire and
Azureus, to name two, although I agree Java on desktops has faltered,
unlike in server and mobiles, where it is strongly dominant).

The advantage overall is that to developers Java is a superior
development platform in general than creating native apps in terms of
ease of development, range of target markets, and safety.

> I'm amused as well, since Google's GMM for Windows Mobile works better
> than the Java version, and Opera makes a better native browser for
> Windows (Opera Mobile) that doesn't have the inherent security problem of
> running all of my data through their proxy.

Uh...DUH...since Google Maps Mobile for Windows (and also the Palm
version) was developed SPECIFICALLY for windows mobiles and Palms, I
would rather hope that it is somehow better than an app that was
developed for several hundred different models of cells, including
phones that have barely any memory. Please think before opening mouth,
it helps save spit.

You actually highlighted a FEATURE of java, not a disadvantage. The
ability to be able to write to an enormous range of devices and thus
blanket a market.

As to Opera Mobile, LOL, that must be the reason why so many users are
flocking to Opera Mini away from Opera Mobile (and all the Windows
Mobile browsers)...again, the speed of Opera Mini because of the
superior architecture is what makes the difference. The user honestly
does not care about anything else, whether the app is native or java
or whatever, so long as it renders their pages quickly and correctly
(and Opera Mini continues to improve leaps and bounds after every
version release on this score).


>Beats me, I could care less- I'm a user, not a developer. No program I
>use has required me to install it, so my installed programs are either
>using whatever version is already built into my MDA's ROM, or they don't
>need it.

Like i said, too bad you don't represent several billion other people
on this planet. I honestly don't give an owl's fart about what you do
or do not prefer. All I care about is that there is a huge target
market for my apps.

PS. CF dotnet was Microsoft's answer to Java ME...didn't do very
well ,,,ROTFLOL....





 
 
Kurt





PostPosted: 2007-7-1 0:43:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc In article <email***@***.com>,
email***@***.com wrote:

> On Jun 29, 10:31 pm, Kurt <email***@***.com> wrote:
> > In article <email***@***.com>,
> >
> > email***@***.com wrote:
> > > This guy nailed it, although I think the iphone will just become like
> > > any other smartphone as opposed to an outright flop, albeit a lot more
> > > CRIPPLED because you actually can't do anything with it.
> >
> > LOL I'd love to repost this 6 months from now.
> > We'll see how good your spinning skills are.
> >
>
>
> Perhaps you'd like to post valid arguments instead of vacuous taunts
> to the writer of the article.
>
> Since the iPhone has absolutely no application capability, no IM, no
> email integration capabilities, and not even the ability to edit
> documents or spreadsheets or powerpoint presentations, it
> automatically won't affect the business smartphone market (thus, the
> fact that Rim Blackberry shares went up by $34 today).
>
> Since it does not play any of the thousands of consumer Java games and
> apps (IM, messaging, picture sharing, social networking, etc) already
> in the market today, it is also a crippled CONSUMER phones.
>
> In other words, it's a pretty GUI with nothing underneath.

Bwaaaaa..

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
 
 
Kurt





PostPosted: 2007-7-1 0:46:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc In article <email***@***.com>,
email***@***.com wrote:

> On Jun 29, 11:56 pm, "John" <email***@***.com> wrote:
> > <email***@***.com> wrote in message
> > The iPhone will be a tremendous success based on what I saw tonight at the
> > Apple and ATT stores. Joe Sixpack wants it. Its appeal is not limited
> > to techies.
>
> J6P can't afford it....most people want a less than $100 phone.

iPhone data plan alone saves you $720 for 2 years over the standard PDA
data plan.
You've paid for your phone with this savings.

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
 
 
asjbiotek





PostPosted: 2007-7-1 1:06:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc
Kurt wrote:
> In article <email***@***.com>,
> email***@***.com wrote:
>
> > On Jun 29, 11:56 pm, "John" <email***@***.com> wrote:
> > > <email***@***.com> wrote in message
> > > The iPhone will be a tremendous success based on what I saw tonight at the
> > > Apple and ATT stores. Joe Sixpack wants it. Its appeal is not limited
> > > to techies.
> >
> > J6P can't afford it....most people want a less than $100 phone.
>
> iPhone data plan alone saves you $720 for 2 years over the standard PDA
> data plan.
> You've paid for your phone with this savings.
>

dude, i that $19 plan is a standard...that's what i have.

 
 
William Michael Greene





PostPosted: 2007-7-1 1:20:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc
<email***@***.com> wrote in message
news:email***@***.com...
>
> Kurt wrote:
>> In article <email***@***.com>,
>> email***@***.com wrote:
>>
>> > On Jun 29, 11:56 pm, "John" <email***@***.com> wrote:
>> > > <email***@***.com> wrote in message
>> > > The iPhone will be a tremendous success based on what I saw tonight
>> > > at the
>> > > Apple and ATT stores. Joe Sixpack wants it. Its appeal is not
>> > > limited
>> > > to techies.
>> >
>> > J6P can't afford it....most people want a less than $100 phone.
>>
>> iPhone data plan alone saves you $720 for 2 years over the standard PDA
>> data plan.
>> You've paid for your phone with this savings.
>>
>
> dude, i that $19 plan is a standard...that's what i have.
>

Then that is almost what you will pay for the data plan for the iPhone. $1
more.It will not be in addition to what you are paying for the data package
now.

I think if people hate the iPhone so much, don't get one. Why bother
spending time putting down the phone and people wanting one. Just be happy
with what you have and leave others alone.
'Oh well, I guess people have to have a cause to champion" .

It's just beyond me why people have to complain as if they are forced to get
one.



 
 
Todd Allcock





PostPosted: 2007-7-1 2:08:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc At 30 Jun 2007 05:57:35 -0700 email***@***.com wrote:

> lol....Notice I never said that Java is somehow superior to native
> apps for end-users in PCs.

Yet you bash a phone for not supporting Java, even when it has it's own
apps available. Java is great for when there's no other alternative.
With more advanced phones it's basically a low-end phone emulator.

> To a consumer end user, there usually isn't (and should not be) any
> difference.between the two

Sure there is- there's yet another "layer" between the code and the
processor running it, which slows it down, or limits it's access to the
device's resources.

> (Since we're talking PCs,

Not really- I just used them as an analogy...

>the fact is that
> the some of most popular desktop apps are java apps - Limewire and
> Azureus, to name two,

Your dictionary must have a different definition of "popular" than mine.

"Word" is a popular desktop app- "Photoshop" is a popular desktop app.
BT clients don't really crack the top 50.

> although I agree Java on desktops has faltered,
> unlike in server and mobiles, where it is strongly dominant).

It's only dominant where there's no other realistic choice- there are too
many phones with proprietary OSes to develop for each one separately .

> The advantage overall is that to developers Java is a superior
> development platform in general than creating native apps in terms of
> ease of development, range of target markets, and safety.

Easier for YOU as a developer, but it results in a slower, less-
fulfilling app for the end-user. Again, that's fine for when there's no
other choice, like with a typical mobile, but why would I want to run an
app inside a VM on a Palm or WinMo device where native apps are available
to do the same job better or faster? Putting java on the iPhone would be
a marketing disaster- why "admit" the $600 iPhone has the same software
availability as a free Nokia 6030?


> > I' amused as well, since Google's GMM for Windows Mobile works better
> > than the Java version, and Opera makes a better native browser for
> > Windows (Opera Mobile) that doesn't have the inherent security
problem of
> > running all of my data through their proxy.
>
> Uh...DUH...since Google Maps Mobile for Windows (and also the Palm
> version) was developed SPECIFICALLY for windows mobiles and Palms, I
> would rather hope that it is somehow better than an app that was
> developed for several hundred different models of cells, including
> phones that have barely any memory. Please think before opening mouth,
> it helps save spit.


I'm not the one who's touting Java as the ultimate feature of a
cellphone, or implying it's the iPhone's achille's heel. If iPhone's
widgets accomplish the same task, end users won't care if it's Java or not.


> You actually highlighted a FEATURE of java, not a disadvantage.

Sometimes they're the same thing- backwards compatibilty is what held
back PCs for years- the DOS 640k limits, etc.

> The
> ability to be able to write to an enormous range of devices and thus
> blanket a market.


Just like with a BASIC interpreter in the 70's! How many "bestselling
programs" were written in BASIC?


> As to Opera Mobile, LOL, that must be the reason why so many users are
> flocking to Opera Mini away from Opera Mobile (and all the Windows
> Mobile browsers)...again, the speed of Opera Mini because of the
> superior architecture is what makes the difference.

It's not the "superior architecture" of Mini- it's the Opera servers
doing all the work! Some employers might not like having their data
funnelled through Opera! Opera Mini is really only widely used on WinMo
because it's free, and the best alternative on non-touchscreen devices
that can't run Mobile or Netfront.

> The user honestly
> does not care about anything else, whether the app is native or java
> or whatever, so long as it renders their pages quickly and correctly
> (and Opera Mini continues to improve leaps and bounds after every
> version release on this score).


I'm glad you're happy with it. I'll stick with Opera Mobile. Mini can't
render a corporate website I require access to for work, whereas Mobile
can. I don't have a choice (other than drag a laptop around with me!)

> >Beats me, I could care less- I'm a user, not a developer. No program I
> >use has required me to install it, so my installed programs are either
> >using whatever version is already built into my MDA's ROM, or they
don't
> >need it.
>
> Like i said, too bad you don't represent several billion other people
> on this planet.

I don't, because my phone runs a better OS. Java's for RAZRs and Nokia
series 40 phones.

> I honestly don't give an owl's fart about what you do
> or do not prefer.

Really? I sometimes lie awake at night worried about your preferences...

> All I care about is that there is a huge target
> market for my apps.


Which proves your concern about the iPhone's lack of Java support is more
about your needs, not the needs of iPhone users. Thanks for clearing
that up for us!

>
> PS. CF dotnet was Microsoft's answer to Java ME...didn't do very
> well ,,,ROTFLOL....

You seem to be the only one here "LOL"ing at yourself.

Again, I'm not a developer, so it's not my problem- it's yours. Good
luck porting your apps to Safari widgets. As of today, there's
apparently a new market of a few hundred thousand phone users you have
nothing to sell to...



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 
 
Todd Allcock





PostPosted: 2007-7-1 2:22:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc At 30 Jun 2007 09:45:58 -0700 Kurt wrote:

> iPhone data plan alone saves you $720 for 2 years over the standard PDA
> data plan.


Except it isn't a PDA!

> You've paid for your phone with this savings.

And maybe have enough left over to buy a PDA!>


 
 
asjbiotek





PostPosted: 2007-7-1 4:18:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc
Todd AllcockNoBalls wrote:
> Yet you bash a phone for not supporting Java, even when it has it's own
> apps available.

actually i bash phones that are so crippled they cannot take advantage
of the largest library of apps out there.

>Java is great for when there's no other alternative.

must be news to all those large companies who are heavily java like
google, ebay, and probably 80% of all financial institutions in the
world. The nasdaq is even moving to real time java...

> yet another "layer" between the code and the
> processor running it, which slows it down, or limits it's access to the
> device's resources.

there are both benefits and disadvantages to that obviously. and yet
there are many studiesthat show java surpassing even C++ in speed.

>
Your dictionary must have a different definition of "popular" than
mine.
>

hello??? i suggest getting off ur ass and looking them up because
they are two of the most popular apps out there, more so than
photoshop in terms of usage.

> there are too
> many phones with proprietary OSes to develop for each one separately .

hey, no kidding allcock and noballs. that's what it was meant for....a
way to write across devices.


> Easier for YOU as a developer, but it results in a slower, less-
> fulfilling app for the end-user.

1. it's better for all because the market for apps becomes very large
and consumers get lots of choice.

2. Please show me some studies that indicate large consumer
dissatisfaction. in fact, i can show u a hell lot more people
complaining about windows mobile in general than their apps.

> app inside a VM on a Palm or WinMo device where native apps are available

hey ballsie, maybe it's because there are not that many native apps
available? Is it our fault windows on mobiles are so niche that not
that many write to it? maybe if the phones actually didn't crash every
minute running native apps more peopl would use it.

> why "admit" the $600 iPhone has the same software
> availability as a free Nokia 6030?

hey cockhead, maybe because THEN it would NOT run much LESS apps than
free phones?

>the iPhone's achille's heel. If iPhone's
> widgets accomplish the same task, end users won't care if it's Java or no

ayah, ballcock, seen any 3d widget games lately? any IM widgets on
phones?

>
> Just like with a BASIC interpreter in the 70's! How many "bestselling
> programs" were written in BASIC?

hey mr ballcock, u do know there are more than desktop apps nowadays
right? and btw, java runs on more than 3.5 billion devices today, from
set top boxes and tivos, to blu ray high definition discs, to SIM
cards on ur phone and the security and health cards of the US military
and several entire countries, to servers running the biggest
businesses today hell more than basic in the 70s....

> I don't, because my phone runs a better OS. Java's for RAZRs and Nokia
> series 40 phones.

then i suggest telling that to the tons of users on high end nokia and
windows and linux phones running java apps. like i said, i don't give
a ballcock what u want or don't want. the market says differently.
lol.

btw, i wouldn't call an unstable os like windows mobile a "better os"
than pretty muc.h any other os out there.

> You seem to be the only one here "LOL"ing at yourself.
>

i'm lolling at u, mr cock and no balls.lol

>Good
> luck porting your apps to Safari widgets. As of today, there's
> apparently a new market of a few hundred thousand phone users you have
> nothing to sell to...

you ever heard of webapps? iphone users will just have to make do with
less feature-laden html i guess they'll just have to wait several
minutes for the pages to show up....

* getting ready to watch movie while tapping on my opera mini

 
 
ed





PostPosted: 2007-7-1 4:19:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc "Todd Allcock" <email***@***.com> wrote in message
news:46868fdc$0$16386$email***@***.com...
> At 30 Jun 2007 05:57:35 -0700 email***@***.com wrote:
>
>> lol....Notice I never said that Java is somehow superior to native
>> apps for end-users in PCs.
>
> Yet you bash a phone for not supporting Java, even when it has it's own
> apps available. Java is great for when there's no other alternative.
> With more advanced phones it's basically a low-end phone emulator.

even with more advanced phones, it's good to have java available, because
the app you want may not have a native version available. for example, with
the iphone, the native google maps app is obviously the prefereable choice-
however, on the same phone, the java gmail app *would* be a much better
choice than the web based mobile gmail, but it's not an option, and there's
also no native version.


<snip>

 
 
Mitch





PostPosted: 2007-7-1 5:38:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc In article <email***@***.com>, Kurt
<email***@***.com> wrote:

> > Perhaps you'd like to post valid arguments instead of vacuous taunts
> > to the writer of the article.
> >
> > Since the iPhone has absolutely no application capability, no IM, no
> > email integration capabilities, and not even the ability to edit
> > documents or spreadsheets or powerpoint presentations, it
> > automatically won't affect the business smartphone market (thus, the
> > fact that Rim Blackberry shares went up by $34 today).
> >
> > Since it does not play any of the thousands of consumer Java games and
> > apps (IM, messaging, picture sharing, social networking, etc) already
> > in the market today, it is also a crippled CONSUMER phones.
> >
> > In other words, it's a pretty GUI with nothing underneath.
>
> Bwaaaaa..

I like this guy's criticism of 'vacuous taunts' -- and then 9 (!)
silly and exaggerated taunts of the device.

He is totally wrong about not integrating e-mail, which shows just how
informed he is.
He notes, oddly, that it cannot edit a spreadsheet. He doesn't seem to
be aware that reading a file is the most important function.
He foolishly ignores all the included apps just to cite that it won't
play someone else's programs. (So what? It has the major apps already!)
He (extremely foolishly) suggests it has nothing underneath this pretty
GUI. Everyone who has heard anything about it knows that isn't true --
every single demonstration shows it doing stuff.

Apparently, for this guy, Apple's apps and designs just aren't ever
enough. He must be a Windows or Linux user, trained to think he needs
to fix everything to get basic operations out of it.
 
 
Mitch





PostPosted: 2007-7-1 5:55:00 Top

java-programmer >> Apple Flops: iPhone will flop like Mac Mini, Cube, Newton, etc, etc In article <46868fdc$0$16386$email***@***.com>, Todd Allcock
<email***@***.com> wrote:

> > Like i said, too bad you don't represent several billion other people
> > on this planet.
Neither does ANYTHING you have ever said.
Let's not get stupid -- at the very very highest, you MAY be talking
about a few million potential users.
NEVER "several billion," dummy.

> > All I care about is that there is a huge target
> > market for my apps.
Aha; you aren't criticizing what you perceive as a real missing feature
for users, then. You're just annoyed that everyone doesn't make more
customers for YOU.
Well, since that has been the case in every industry for all time, you
get no sympathy at all.


> > PS. CF dotnet was Microsoft's answer to Java ME...didn't do very
> > well ,,,ROTFLOL....
It doesn't take much to entertain the simple.
No, .Net was not an answer to Java. That's not just an
oversimplification, it's a foolish conclusion.

> As of today, there's
> apparently a new market of a few hundred thousand phone users you have
> nothing to sell to...
And rather than do some work, he's going to whine about it and tell
people that Apple screwed up.
Even though he never had any reason to assume phone makers would always
support Java, he's going to pretend everyone has that obligation.
Apparently, if it makes sense to him, it's stupid for anyone else to
decide otherwise.

Sounds like a lot of Windows users in here. They accept it, many others
do, and therefore it must be good enough and good enough for everybody.