java 6 used in large companies?  
Author Message
elh.maayan





PostPosted: 2008-2-21 18:08:00 Top

java-programmer, java 6 used in large companies? hi..

we are a large company considering the move from java 1.4 to either 5
or 6.

at the same we are upgrading to was6 (or maybe jboss 4), we are
interested to learn if there are any major projects on enterprise
level involving java 6 (including the use of it's web services
framework).
 
Arne Vajh鴍





PostPosted: 2008-2-22 11:09:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? email***@***.com wrote:
> we are a large company considering the move from java 1.4 to either 5
> or 6.
>
> at the same we are upgrading to was6 (or maybe jboss 4), we are
> interested to learn if there are any major projects on enterprise
> level involving java 6 (including the use of it's web services
> framework).

The enterprise world is always behind.

First the app server vendor need to come out with a version
that support Java X+1, then you certify your app for Java X+1
and then you wait for a suitable opportunity to upgrade from
Java X to X+1.

It all takes time.

My guess is that very few EE sites has switched to Java 6 in
production yet.

But many probably has it on the roadmap.

WAS 6.1 is only certified for Java 5 AFAIK.

JBoss 4.2 is intended for Java 5 as well, but they do have
a patch so that it will work with Java 6.

Arne
 
Roedy Green





PostPosted: 2008-2-22 20:11:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:08:19 -0800 (PST), email***@***.com wrote,
quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>we are a large company considering the move from java 1.4 to either 5
>or 6.

I would think the only reason not to go to 6 is to provide code for
people who use older Java. If the project is purely internal (e.g. on
a server) I can't think of any reason to hold back.
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com
 
 
Roedy Green





PostPosted: 2008-2-22 21:21:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:11:11 GMT, Roedy Green
<email***@***.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

>I would think the only reason not to go to 6 is to provide code for
>people who use older Java. If the project is purely internal (e.g. on
>a server) I can't think of any reason to hold back.

There is a natural reluctance to switch. You want to avoid the
disruption. You want to avoid the work of adjusting. But when you do
jump, you might as well jump all the way to 6.0.
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com
 
 
QXJuZSBWYWpow7hq





PostPosted: 2008-2-23 10:21:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? Lew wrote:
> Java 6 has been out for more than a year, now.
>
> If I had decision power for an organization I'd go right to Java 6. The
> benefits clearly outweigh the risks by a sizable margin.

Out of curiosity:
- what percentage productivity gain has you set the new features
in Java 6 to provide ?
- applied to how many hours ?
- what have you estimated the retest cost to ?
- what expected additional downtime have you calculated with ?
- and what dollar equivalent have you set each downtime minut to ?

Arne
 
 
Arne Vajh鴍





PostPosted: 2008-2-23 10:25:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? Roedy Green wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:08:19 -0800 (PST), email***@***.com wrote,
> quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>> we are a large company considering the move from java 1.4 to either 5
>> or 6.
>
> I would think the only reason not to go to 6 is to provide code for
> people who use older Java. If the project is purely internal (e.g. on
> a server) I can't think of any reason to hold back.

Small facts like that WAS 6.1 is not supported on Java 6 is not
considered relevant ?

Arne
 
 
Roedy Green





PostPosted: 2008-2-23 10:35:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:25:13 -0500, Arne Vajh鴍 <email***@***.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>Small facts like that WAS 6.1 is not supported on Java 6 is not
>considered relevant ?

WAS = WebSphere Application Server ?

Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com
 
 
Arne Vajh鴍





PostPosted: 2008-2-23 10:37:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? Roedy Green wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:25:13 -0500, Arne Vajh鴍 <email***@***.com>
> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>> Small facts like that WAS 6.1 is not supported on Java 6 is not
>> considered relevant ?
>
> WAS = WebSphere Application Server ?

Yes.

Arne
 
 
Arne Vajh鴍





PostPosted: 2008-2-23 10:41:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? Roedy Green wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:21:03 -0500, Arne Vajh鴍 <email***@***.com>
> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>> - what percentage productivity gain has you set the new features
>> in Java 6 to provide ?
>
> The apps run faster.

Actually a bit yes.

> Bugs get fixed.

Can you refer to any source for that 6u4 has fewer bugs than
5u14 ?

> It is quite a painless upgrade from 5 to 6. It is not like the jump to
> 5 where you had to generify everything to take advantage.
>
> I don't think I had to change anything. Just recompile. The same ant
> scripts worked unchanged.

That does not justify an upgrade to the bean counters.

Arne
 
 
Roedy Green





PostPosted: 2008-2-24 0:48:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:41:20 -0500, Arne Vajh鴍 <email***@***.com>
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

>That does not justify an upgrade to the bean counters.

I am not trying to justify an upgrade, just if you do one, you might
as well go to 6.

Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com
 
 
Andreas Leitgeb





PostPosted: 2008-2-26 17:44:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? Arne Vajh鴍 <email***@***.com> wrote:
> Roedy Green wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:41:20 -0500, Arne Vajh鴍 <email***@***.com>
>> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>>> That does not justify an upgrade to the bean counters.
>> I am not trying to justify an upgrade, just if you do one, you might
>> as well go to 6.
> So you have tested WAS 6.1 on 6 so you will vouch for that combo and
> have some statistics for that 6u4 has no more bugs than 5u14 ?
> Or did you just flip a coin to decide on that recommendation ?

The context was, whether from 1.4 to jump to 1.5 or 6.
Jumping to 1.5 means all the effort of testing, checking
for bugs that bite, that is now done for 1.5 will sooner
or later have to be re-done for 6. So if testing for
those bugs is, what puts the butter on your bread, then
for heaven's sake go to 1.5 now! :-D
Let the bean-counters pay you for their attitude.

 
 
Andreas Leitgeb





PostPosted: 2008-2-26 17:46:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? >> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:25:13 -0500, Arne Vajh鴍 <email***@***.com>
>> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>>> Small facts like that WAS 6.1 is not supported on Java 6 is not
>>> considered relevant ?

If it *is* relevant, then there's probably no choice to begin with.

 
 
Arne Vajh鴍





PostPosted: 2008-2-27 11:39:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
>>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:25:13 -0500, Arne Vajh鴍 <email***@***.com>
>>> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>>>> Small facts like that WAS 6.1 is not supported on Java 6 is not
>>>> considered relevant ?
>
> If it *is* relevant, then there's probably no choice to begin with.

The original poster mentioned WAS 6.1 as most likely app server.

Arne
 
 
Arne Vajh鴍





PostPosted: 2008-2-27 11:46:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
> Arne Vajh鴍 <email***@***.com> wrote:
>> Roedy Green wrote:
>>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:41:20 -0500, Arne Vajh鴍 <email***@***.com>
>>> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>>>> That does not justify an upgrade to the bean counters.
>>> I am not trying to justify an upgrade, just if you do one, you might
>>> as well go to 6.
>> So you have tested WAS 6.1 on 6 so you will vouch for that combo and
>> have some statistics for that 6u4 has no more bugs than 5u14 ?
>> Or did you just flip a coin to decide on that recommendation ?
>
> The context was, whether from 1.4 to jump to 1.5 or 6.

That was the original context.

And the >> is indeed about whether 1.4->6 is a possible/better than
1.4->5.

The >>>> was a response to:

#It is quite a painless upgrade from 5 to 6. It is not like the jump to
#5 where you had to generify everything to take advantage.
#
#I don't think I had to change anything. Just recompile. The same ant
#scripts worked unchanged.

which is about 5->6 !

It did become a mix of original posters problem and general
upgrade practice. Probably my fault because I get a bit upset
when people start with the "just upgrade to latest" philosophy.

> Jumping to 1.5 means all the effort of testing, checking
> for bugs that bite, that is now done for 1.5 will sooner
> or later have to be re-done for 6. So if testing for
> those bugs is, what puts the butter on your bread, then
> for heaven's sake go to 1.5 now! :-D
> Let the bean-counters pay you for their attitude.

No.

Nobody said that you can not skip versions.

Arne
 
 
Andreas Leitgeb





PostPosted: 2008-2-27 17:39:00 Top

java-programmer >> java 6 used in large companies? Arne Vajh鴍 <email***@***.com> wrote:
> Andreas Leitgeb wrote:
>> Let the bean-counters pay you for their attitude.
> No.
> Nobody said that you can not skip versions.

Obviously then, my rant was about a not-necessarily
existing virtual sub-class of class Beancounters, who
- given the choice - would choose always the smallest
upgrade-step possible.