Cross-platform installer package?  
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slippymississippi
PostPosted: 2006-9-2 4:14:00 Top
java-programmer, Cross-platform installer package? Does anyone know of a cross-platform installer package? Scanning
Google, it appears that the installer package landscape is all focused
on specific operating systems.

 
Andrew Thompson
PostPosted: 2006-9-2 4:34:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? email***@***.com wrote:
> Does anyone know of a cross-platform installer package?

WebStart.

Andrew T.

 
Steven J. Sobol
PostPosted: 2006-9-2 8:06:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? In article <email***@***.com>, email***@***.com wrote:
> Does anyone know of a cross-platform installer package? Scanning
> Google, it appears that the installer package landscape is all focused
> on specific operating systems.

InstallJammer. Written in Tcl and runs on several different platforms. Open
source. Does lots of cool things. Author is very responsive to suggestions
and eager to please. :) Worth much more than what it costs ($0).

www.installjammer.com

It's not Java-specific, but it does have a handful of settings to make it
easier to install Java apps.

--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows
Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED

It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room.
 
 
slippymississippi
PostPosted: 2006-9-6 23:53:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package?
Steven J. Sobol wrote:
> In article <email***@***.com>, email***@***.com wrote:
> > Does anyone know of a cross-platform installer package? Scanning
> > Google, it appears that the installer package landscape is all focused
> > on specific operating systems.
>
> InstallJammer. Written in Tcl and runs on several different platforms. Open
> source. Does lots of cool things. Author is very responsive to suggestions
> and eager to please. :) Worth much more than what it costs ($0).
>
> www.installjammer.com
>
> It's not Java-specific, but it does have a handful of settings to make it
> easier to install Java apps.

This is incredible. Thanks!

 
 
Lionel
PostPosted: 2006-9-13 14:52:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? email***@***.com wrote:
> Steven J. Sobol wrote:
>> In article <email***@***.com>, email***@***.com wrote:
>>> Does anyone know of a cross-platform installer package? Scanning
>>> Google, it appears that the installer package landscape is all focused
>>> on specific operating systems.
>> InstallJammer. Written in Tcl and runs on several different platforms. Open
>> source. Does lots of cool things. Author is very responsive to suggestions
>> and eager to please. :) Worth much more than what it costs ($0).
>>
>> www.installjammer.com
>>
>> It's not Java-specific, but it does have a handful of settings to make it
>> easier to install Java apps.
>
> This is incredible. Thanks!
>

LOL, I actually found this post via a google and came pack to respond to
an old post I made asking people about cross-platform installers. I am
now using InstallJammer and it is excellent. While I'm sure JWS is a
good option it must first be installed and I don't think that is a
reasonable assumption.

Lionel.
 
 
Andrew Thompson
PostPosted: 2006-9-13 18:04:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? Lionel wrote:
> email***@***.com wrote:
> > Steven J. Sobol wrote:
> >> In article <email***@***.com>, email***@***.com wrote:
> >>> Does anyone know of a cross-platform installer package?
...
> >> www.installjammer.com

Does the definition 'cross-platform' usually include Mac's?
(I say it does)

InstallJammer homepage..
"InstallJammer is a multiplatform GUI installer designed to be
completely cross-platform and function on Windows and most
all versions of UNIX with eventual support for Mac OS X."

IJ is not X-plat.
...
> > This is incredible. Thanks!
..
> LOL, I actually found this post via a google and came pack to respond to
> an old post I made asking people about cross-platform installers. I am
> now using InstallJammer and it is excellent. While I'm sure JWS is a
> good option it must first be installed and I don't think that is a
> reasonable assumption.

Possibly not. But then, JWS comes with any (modern) JRE.

What does IJ offer when no suitable JRE is found?
<http://www.installjammer.com/docs/index.html?LocateJavaRuntime>
..which ends with an option to 'Prompt User'.

JWS has a simple little web-page to check for WebStart availability
and prompt installation. As I understand it, the JRE can come from
the 'same disk as the web-page' (better for off-line install) - or from
Sun.

Andrew T.

 
 
Steven J. Sobol
PostPosted: 2006-9-14 2:29:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? In article <email***@***.com>, Andrew Thompson wrote:

> Does the definition 'cross-platform' usually include Mac's?
> (I say it does)
>
> InstallJammer homepage..
> "InstallJammer is a multiplatform GUI installer designed to be
> completely cross-platform and function on Windows and most
> all versions of UNIX with eventual support for Mac OS X."
>
> IJ is not X-plat.

Nitpick -

Not as X-plat as it should be. Windows and most flavors of Unix are
supported, so it's obviously not single-platform. :) IIRC the author
is working on Mac OSX compatibility, but you may want to contact him.


> What does IJ offer when no suitable JRE is found?
><http://www.installjammer.com/docs/index.html?LocateJavaRuntime>
> ..which ends with an option to 'Prompt User'.
>
> JWS has a simple little web-page to check for WebStart availability
> and prompt installation. As I understand it, the JRE can come from
> the 'same disk as the web-page' (better for off-line install) - or from
> Sun.

Well, that's a good point, but I believe I made the point that it's not
a Java-specific program. On the other hand, most installers that claim
to find JRE's only do a few specific things like checking the Registry
(on Windows), or checking the system path. That could be added in easily
enough.

Anyhow, IJ is a great general-purpose installer. This does not mean it's
going to be great for everyone, and I would expect that many people
(especially in this newsgroup) would prefer a solution like JWS. I was
just putting the suggestion out there...

--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows
Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED

It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room.
 
 
Andrew Thompson
PostPosted: 2006-9-14 2:42:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? Steven J. Sobol wrote:
> In article <email***@***.com>, Andrew Thompson wrote:
..
> > What does IJ offer when no suitable JRE is found?
> ><http://www.installjammer.com/docs/index.html?LocateJavaRuntime>
> > ..which ends with an option to 'Prompt User'.
> >
> > JWS has a simple little web-page to check for WebStart availability
> > and prompt installation. As I understand it, the JRE can come from
> > the 'same disk as the web-page' (better for off-line install) - or from
> > Sun.
>
> Well, that's a good point, but I believe I made the point that it's not
> a Java-specific program. On the other hand, most installers that claim
> to find JRE's only do a few specific things like checking the Registry
> (on Windows), or checking the system path. That could be added in easily
> enough.

No. IJ already offers all the usual 'find Java to best version'
automatically (or you can tell the script to do so, according
to that page) - it is just that failing finding a suitable JRE
by the automated method, you (the deployer) can choose
to offer the 'Prompt for Java' as a last ditch effort.

[ As an aside - I prefer that approach to attempts to
'bundle' a JVM with each application. ]

> Anyhow, IJ is a great general-purpose installer. This does not mean it's
> going to be great for everyone, and I would expect that many people
> (especially in this newsgroup) would prefer a solution like JWS. I was
> just putting the suggestion out there...

Good points. There are sure things that JWS either
cannot do, or has significant trouble with.

No deployment solution fits every situation.

Andrew T.

 
 
Steven J. Sobol
PostPosted: 2006-9-14 6:00:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? In article <email***@***.com>, Andrew Thompson wrote:

>> to find JRE's only do a few specific things like checking the Registry
>> (on Windows), or checking the system path. That could be added in easily
>> enough.
>
> No. IJ already offers all the usual 'find Java to best version'
> automatically (or you can tell the script to do so, according
> to that page) - it is just that failing finding a suitable JRE
> by the automated method, you (the deployer) can choose
> to offer the 'Prompt for Java' as a last ditch effort.

Eh... I must not have RTFM'd closely enough. I missed that. Thanks.


--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows
Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED

It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room.
 
 
Lionel
PostPosted: 2006-9-14 6:29:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? Andrew Thompson wrote:
> Lionel wrote:
>> email***@***.com wrote:
>>> Steven J. Sobol wrote:
>>>> In article <email***@***.com>, email***@***.com wrote:
>>>>> Does anyone know of a cross-platform installer package?
> ...
>>>> www.installjammer.com
>
> Does the definition 'cross-platform' usually include Mac's?
> (I say it does)
>
> InstallJammer homepage..
> "InstallJammer is a multiplatform GUI installer designed to be
> completely cross-platform and function on Windows and most
> all versions of UNIX with eventual support for Mac OS X."
>
> IJ is not X-plat.

I'm relying the eventual support and I believe I can take a crack at
getting it to run on Mac OS X as it is unix based anyway. You do have a
point though and I wasn't as concerned about Mac as I was Unix and Windows.


> ...
>>> This is incredible. Thanks!
> ..
>> LOL, I actually found this post via a google and came pack to respond to
>> an old post I made asking people about cross-platform installers. I am
>> now using InstallJammer and it is excellent. While I'm sure JWS is a
>> good option it must first be installed and I don't think that is a
>> reasonable assumption.
>
> Possibly not. But then, JWS comes with any (modern) JRE.
>
> What does IJ offer when no suitable JRE is found?
> <http://www.installjammer.com/docs/index.html?LocateJavaRuntime>
> ..which ends with an option to 'Prompt User'.

My installer will automatically install Java, I only made minimal use of
the Java Support in InstallJammer. Launching the Java installer in
silent mode with basic gui (to show user progress bar) is an excellent
solution.


> JWS has a simple little web-page to check for WebStart availability
> and prompt installation. As I understand it, the JRE can come from
> the 'same disk as the web-page' (better for off-line install) - or from
> Sun.

My problem was that you have to check if Java is installed using
something other than Java anyway. Using InstallJammer I have a
consistent look and language throughout the install.

Also, does JWS provide an install builder? Will it automatically create
links to desktop on windows, linux, unix and eventually Mac? Will it add
entries to start menu? Is it possible to achieve everything that is
stated it can do without an Internet connection, just a CD?

I haven't found any clear cut tutorials which makes it harder for me to
just get the job done.

I'm still open, but I am proceeding incredibly happily with IJ because
it can do everything I want, and I get to learn a bit of Tcl/Tk :).

Lionel.
 
 
Lionel
PostPosted: 2006-9-14 6:44:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? Steven J. Sobol wrote:
> In article <email***@***.com>, Andrew Thompson wrote:
>
>>> to find JRE's only do a few specific things like checking the Registry
>>> (on Windows), or checking the system path. That could be added in easily
>>> enough.
>> No. IJ already offers all the usual 'find Java to best version'
>> automatically (or you can tell the script to do so, according
>> to that page) - it is just that failing finding a suitable JRE
>> by the automated method, you (the deployer) can choose
>> to offer the 'Prompt for Java' as a last ditch effort.
>
> Eh... I must not have RTFM'd closely enough. I missed that. Thanks.

You can do it that way but it's rather clunky in my opinion. I still
make use of their search for Java, if it's not found then if the user
downloaded the installer with Java they are offered the opportunity to
have Java installed automatically. I'm creating several different
installers which are all just slightly different from each other:

Windows
MyApp
MyApp+Java
MyApp+MySQL
MyApp+Java+MySQL

The same above for Unix/Linux but not offering MySQL in the install.

Lionel.
 
 
Lionel
PostPosted: 2006-9-14 6:51:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? Andrew Thompson wrote:
> JWS has a simple little web-page to check for WebStart availability
> and prompt installation. As I understand it, the JRE can come from
> the 'same disk as the web-page' (better for off-line install) - or from
> Sun.

Correct me if I'm wrong but:

http://mindprod.com/jgloss/installingjaws.html#BROWSERJNLP

"Firefox Firefox does not seem to have a way of configuring
associations other than selecting download rather than run for a small
built-in set. Nevertheless it partly works, at least for jnlp files out
on the web. It does not work for ones on local hard disk. It seems to
bungle along with Windows associations and MIME type hints from
webservers. Firefox will ask you what to do with an extension it has
never seen before on download. This gives you an indirect way to set up
an automatic association."


So does that mean the JWS is going to be an absolute mongrel with
Firefox? When I went searching this page was complaining about my not
having JWS installed and I really don't know what I have to do to get
this all to work, how is it going to be seemless for a common user?

I'm not trying to find problems, I'm trying to find a solution. You seem
to think JWS is great and I want to know why to see if it will do what I
want.

Lionel.
 
 
Andrew Thompson
PostPosted: 2006-9-14 7:35:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package?
Lionel wrote:
> Andrew Thompson wrote:
> > JWS has a simple little web-page to check for WebStart availability
> > and prompt installation. As I understand it, the JRE can come from
> > the 'same disk as the web-page' (better for off-line install) - or from
> > Sun.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but:
>
> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/installingjaws.html#BROWSERJNLP

I am trimming the rest, for the moment, because
the mindprod page is wrong. I have been meaning
to drop an email to Roedy.

The combined JS/VB solution described by Sun
(as horrendous as it is) is the correct way to go
about it. It covers any browser that supports the
DOM (read, the NetScape family, + many others),
as well as IE (that is where the VB comes into it).

Andrew T.

 
 
Steven J. Sobol
PostPosted: 2006-9-14 7:51:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? In article <eea1ji$177v$email***@***.com>, Lionel wrote:

> You can do it that way but it's rather clunky in my opinion. I still
> make use of their search for Java, if it's not found then if the user
> downloaded the installer with Java they are offered the opportunity to
> have Java installed automatically. I'm creating several different
> installers which are all just slightly different from each other:

Perhaps you could share how you did this?

thanks

--
Steve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows
Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED

It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room.
 
 
Andrew Thompson
PostPosted: 2006-9-14 8:00:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? Lionel wrote:
...
> Also, does JWS provide an install builder?

I do not know quite what you mean by 'install builder'.

>...Will it automatically create
> links to desktop on windows, linux, unix and eventually Mac?

No. It will do that now.

Or rather, it will *offer* the user desktop shortcuts and..

>..Will it add
> entries to start menu?

(Yes) ..start menu intem (both with associated icons, and the
menu item in optional 'sub' menu).

The 'offer' part of it is neat - I can suggest to the end user
via the JNLP that either one or both (or neither) of desktop
shortcut and menu item might be useful for the application.

The end-user gets to choose (on a case-by-case, or
permanent basis - if they tick the checkbox) whether to
include it.

>...Is it possible to achieve everything that is
> stated it can do without an Internet connection, just a CD?

Yes. I've never tried it, but I understand it is possible.

> I haven't found any clear cut tutorials which makes it harder for me to
> just get the job done.

Sun's site sucks.

I regularly have difficulty finding documents that I know are there,
and for which have a number of keywords. I usually use Google
to search Sun's site (specifying java.sun.com as the domain),
since it also returns results much faster than Sun's search page..

Here is one of the 'seminal' documents (for me) in relation
to WebStart.

Most of it is in the 1.5 developers guide - overview here..
<http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/javaws/developersguide/contents.html>

The parts that told me most about the abilities of WebStart, were ..

1) The elements offered in the JNLP
<http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/javaws/developersguide/syntax.html>

2) Detecting JWS and correctly launching the JNLP is described here..
<http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/javaws/developersguide/launch.html>

> I'm still open, but I am proceeding incredibly happily with IJ because
> it can do everything I want, and I get to learn a bit of Tcl/Tk :).

Fair enough. At the moment I mostly use JWS, but occasionally
throw up a 'jar with manifest' (which is fine when you can expect
the client to have Java) to wrapping Java projects (screensavers)
in an installer .exe (for Win. deployment - we use alternate
installation
mechanism for *nix - Mac's are not currently supported) using the
NullSoft installer - which sounds very similar to IJ.

..It is wonderful that there are so many (free) deployment options.
:-)

Andrew T.

 
 
Lionel
PostPosted: 2006-9-14 8:01:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? Steven J. Sobol wrote:
> In article <eea1ji$177v$email***@***.com>, Lionel wrote:
>
>> You can do it that way but it's rather clunky in my opinion. I still
>> make use of their search for Java, if it's not found then if the user
>> downloaded the installer with Java they are offered the opportunity to
>> have Java installed automatically. I'm creating several different
>> installers which are all just slightly different from each other:
>
> Perhaps you could share how you did this?

Well I haven't finished yet but it's basically like this.

Create a new pane that has two radio buttons, one that is selected by
default and indicates that your installer will automatically install
Java (You must have the appropriate Java installer packaged) and give
the default location. There's a brows button that allows the user to
change the location if they so desire. When the next button is clicked
the Java installer is launched providing options to install silently.
Provide another radio button that the user can select and then press a
second browse button allowing them to tell you where the correct Java
version is. This time when the Next button is clicked check that the
Java version is valid, if not don't proceed and tell the user.

Set the search for Java action to be executed before the above pane is
shown, if the correct Java version is NOT found show the pane, else
don't and the installer continues.

The installer project can be copied and slight modifications such as the
JRE installer can be changed to allow for the target OS.

As I said, I'm still working on the details, but if you want to know
more let me know. That's provided I don't get convinced about JWS in the
mean time :).

Lionel.
 
 
Lionel
PostPosted: 2006-9-14 8:30:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? Andrew Thompson wrote:
> I regularly have difficulty finding documents that I know are there,
> and for which have a number of keywords. I usually use Google
> to search Sun's site (specifying java.sun.com as the domain),
> since it also returns results much faster than Sun's search page..

Great, I'm not the only one then.

> Most of it is in the 1.5 developers guide - overview here..
> <http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/javaws/developersguide/contents.html>
>
> The parts that told me most about the abilities of WebStart, were ..
>
> 1) The elements offered in the JNLP
> <http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/javaws/developersguide/syntax.html>
>
> 2) Detecting JWS and correctly launching the JNLP is described here..
> <http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/javaws/developersguide/launch.html>

Ok, it's looking more interesting now.

On a lot of Linux systems you download and install Java and browsers
will NOT know about it. It relies on you making a symbolic link. Even
then it appears that Firefox and possibly others won't know about jnlp
files. This indicates to me that Java can be installed and it is highly
likely that the scripts provided on the above site will not find JWS. Is
this correct?

I can see that it's probably possible to look at the OS and offer to
install the appropriate version of Java automatically so I believe I can
improve on the process that Sun provides (in some areas).

Lionel.
 
 
Andrew Thompson
PostPosted: 2006-9-16 1:18:00 Top
java-programmer >> Cross-platform installer package? Andrew Thompson wrote:
> Lionel wrote:
> ...
..
> >...Will it automatically create
> > links to desktop on windows, linux, unix and eventually Mac?
..
> ..it will *offer* the user desktop shortcuts and..
>
> >..Will it add
> > entries to start menu?
>
> (Yes) ..start menu intem (both with associated icons, and the
> menu item in optional 'sub' menu).

Since I just put up two little examples that show
combined menu-item/shortcut and shortcut ( and
am trawling for test results ;) I thought I'd mention..

Here's two you can try - to see how it works for the end user.
<http://www.javasaver.com/testjs/jmf/#test2>

So far, the second works here, only very poorly
(at downloading the media) but maybe that is
because of my connection, which is very slow.

Andrew T.

 
 
 
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